I am evaluating the idea of buying a Prius in June/July this year. But I live in Canada and we have normally 5 to 10cm of snow and -15 C of temperatures (sometimes pretty frigid temperatures). This would be my only family car and I can not afford only having vehicle for certain days/season of the year.
Also, I am worry about some complaints I have read on the internet about the Prius traction control system in slippery/snow conditions and unresponsive brakes and unintended acceleration in red traffic lights and highway ramps.
In addition, if I compare the total cost of ownership of a Prius with a Nissan versa hatchback CVT, for instance, seems to be cheaper the second one in the long run.
If possible, I would like to know some experiences and feedbacks in this regard that could help to make my mind.
Thank you very much in advance.
Rafael
Prius in Winter and Total Cost of Ownership?
Hi,
Right up front, we have two feet of snow on the ground, it's -6 F here today, and my stepfather's family was from Saskatchewan and Montreal (yearly visits), so I can understand your concern.
There are a lot of details needed to answer your question, so stay with me and we'll go through them one by one:
1. The big difference will be in mileage, obviously, and the figures can swing wildly, depending on how you drive and maintain your vehicle.
First off, hybrids do get lower mileage when the temp gets close to freezing or below because the internal combustion engine (ICE) runs more to produce heat for the cabin. This is in comparison to warmer months when the ICE does not have to run to move the Prius. I lose about 4-5 mpg in the winter months, and they last about 5-6 months here.
But I still average 51.7 in year round driving, 65 mph highway and city mixed about 40/60. I can get down into the 30's or up into the 70's for mileage (using mpg), so how you drive is important.
Treat the accelerator like there is an egg under it and you're trying to roll the egg out, not make omelets.
Also, double the distance you normally brake. If you start braking at 100 feet (easy numbers), then take your foot off the accelerator at 200 feet and coast to 100, then press the brake gently to the stop.
These two basic techniques (there are more advanced hypermile techniques for when you get used to these), added to checking your tire pressure at least once a week with a digital tire gauge (throw away the cheapy stick gauge), will jump your mileage massively.
Use any numbers you want, but even the US EPA says the 2008 Prius gets 48 city / 45 highway (reversed because the Prius is a full hybrid able to run on electricity only in city driving) and the Versa with a CVT gets 27 city / 33 highway.
That is a difference of 21 mpg city and 12 highway more in favor of the Prius.
With gas at $3.00 a gallon, and using the EPA combined numbers of 46 for the Prius and 30 for the Versa, that means the Prius will cost you about .03 cents per mile less.
(3.00 / 46 = .065 and 3.00 / 30 = .10)
Not much difference, but at 12,000 miles a year, that adds up to $360 a year more, or $1800 more over the life of a 5 year car loan. That may or may not matter to you, but little things do add up.
2. Cold temperatures are not an issue for a full hybrid like the Prius to drive in.
Prius are torture tested from Death Valley to Alaska. Take a look at the dash and the touch screen on the Prius and you'll see easy buttons to convert the English and miles to either French or Spanish and kilometers. This is because the Prius is sold literally from South America up through Canada into Alaska.
Also, there is an insulated thermos container stored under the driver's headlamp that the hot coolant gets pumped into when the Prius is shut off. That coolant will stay hot for up to three days. The Prius starts the electric drive first, the ICE second at startup, and that hot coolant is pumped into the ICE by an electric pump to prewarm it and to provide heat for the cabin faster using the autotemp system (no cold air just blasted on you until the temp gets up into range).
The Prius' air conditioning and heat pumps (that move the heat from the ICE into the cabin) are not linked to the ICE, they are all-electric driven. So it is possible to sit in stop and go traffic with the air conditioning on and the ICE not running.
3. Deep snow can be an issue for any vehicle with traction control and, living in the upper midwest, I have had trouble with the system coming on and limiting wheel grip with the original tires.
My recommendation to anyone living in snow areas is the old school idea of switching to snow tires for winter months and then back again to the standard tires for temperate weather. That will make a measurable difference in your snow traction.
The traction control is fantastic in all other situations (sand, water, etc.), but the system does error on the side of being overly cautious.
4. As far as the brakes, the brakes on the Prius are actually stronger than standard brakes (get up to 4-5 kph and then stand on the Prius brake pedal and see how strong they are), but they are set up differently than regular hydraulic brakes because of the regenerative system.
One of the three ways the Prius creates electricity is by recapturing up to 29% of the braking friction using an electric motor called the MG2 (motor generator 2). This happens when you press the brake pedal, of course, but it does take some getting used to the different feel of the regen braking.
But if you had to hit the brakes hard in the real world, the braking combines with the stability control (I have stability and it is worth every penny of the slight additional expense) and you not only stop "right now" but the Prius keeps itself in a straight line to the full stop.
I have tried panic stops on empty iced-over roads, and you can feel the stability actually bring the rear end back in line, even if you kick the wheel over if you try and overcompensate.
The Prius has electric steering (no steering pump or steering belt) in addition to an electronic throttle and the computer controlled electric braking system. Stability control will actually cancel out oversteer, transfer braking force to the wheel(s) with the most grip, and cancel out throttle input so the engine %26amp; motor are not fighting the brakes.
5. As far as unintended accelleration, that would be an unknown to me. In almost five years of continuous driving of literally dozens of gen 1 and gen 2 Prius, Camry Hybrids and Highlander Hybrids, I have never had a Toyota hybrid accelerate when I didn't want it to, or in a way I didn't intend for it to.
6. On to the idea of cost for each, yes the Prius will cost more, but it is more vehicle. It is like comparing the Versa to the Accord, the Prius has more standard features and more available options than the Versa.
It would be cheaper to initially purchase the Versa, and if the Versa fits your needs and purchase price is your primary concern (nothing wrong with that), than buy the Versa.
However, as you say, this will be your only family vehicle and you want it to last and allow for growth of your family and family members.
They will be similar in interior passenger volume with the Prius slightly larger by about 1.5 cubic feet and the Versa slightly larger in cargo volume with the rear seats up (for family travel) by about . But you will need to see if the extra space really works for you. Saying one vehicle is larger here or there than the other will mean little if the vehicle doesn't fit you and your lifestyle.
7. There is no issue with the nickel metal hydride (NiMH) hybrid battery (just in case that is a concern).
There has never been a person that had to pay for a NiMH that failed due to defects or failure.
There have been NiMH replaced due to accidents, of course, and the occasional person who damaged theirs trying to modify the system (one guy drilled a screw right into his NiMH stack trying to install a big sub-woofer in the back). But otherwise, the current record is over 360,000 miles with the original NiMH and hybrid system.
Anything else is pure myth (it would have been all over the news if these things were failing).
8. Maintenance and upkeep:
- There is no starter or alternator in the Prius.
- As I said before, there is no steering pump or steering belt.
- There is no throttle cable or mechanical linkage for the throttle.
- There is no appreciable wear on the brake pads because of the regenerative braking system (one set of pics I saw showed no appreciable wear on a set of Prius pads after 108,000 miles).
- There is a CVT in the Prius that is not flushed for 90,000 miles.
- The coolant is a long life fluid (100,000 miles in temperate climates, less for both the Prius and the Versa in extreme climates like yours).
- Regular unleaded only.
- Scheduled oil changes at 5000 miles (I stay with 3000 with extreme temps).
- The hybrid system is self-regulating and self-maintaining, there is nothing to adjust, lube, or maintain.
There are many more items to be said about each, but really, it comes down to what you can spend, how much vehicle you need, and what options you want.
I would draw a line down the middle of a piece of paper and write what you need on one side and what you want on the other. Leave this alone for a few days and then see if your answers have changed. Only then would I see how these two vehicles fit your list.
Good luck with your choice.
Reply:Well, I live in MT and it can get pretty cold down here. Also I work at a Toyota dealership. We have sold a bunch on the Prius' and they all just keep going. Instant heat inside cabin area is pretty neat. Never heard of anything like you stated. They older Prius' have a available battery upgrade, which the newer Prius' have in them already. The battery was the only bad thing I heard of. In the states there is also the tax credit you can get for buying hybrid vehicles. Also the new Prius has increased in size...wider again..not like a Camry or Avalon tho. Buy it you'll like it, we cannot keep them in stock they sell so fast.......
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